My name is Mark Benham, I’m head of Real Estate at Lester Aldridge. I advise housebuilders on land promotion, acquisition and development. Outside of work, my passion is music.

There is a clear synergy between community assets, including live music venues, and the creation of new housing. In 2023, the Government’s chief planner Joanna Averley reminded planning authorities that they “have an important role in identifying and protecting local grassroots music venues in their area from the effects of new development”, referring them to the requirements in the NPPF regarding the provision of suitable mitigation measures. She also flagged how the Music Venue Trust can offer support to planning authorities when consulting on applications.

Independent music venues are the lifeblood of the music industry here in the UK, breathing life into our towns and cities as part of the “night-time economy”. Sadly, 2023 was the UK’s worst year for music venue closures, according to the Music Venue Trust, with 125 grassroots music venues closing over 12 months. Without Government support, the sad reality is that the number of venues will continue to shrink.

Our next guest is Shain Shapiro.

Based in east London, Shain is one of the world’s leading music and cultural policy thinkers. He is the founder and chairman of economics consultancy Sound Diplomacy, and founder and director of the global nonprofit Center for Music Ecosystems. Shain has pioneered the work of music ecosystem policy, where music is written into how cities and places plan and invest in their future.

Shain is also the acclaimed author of This Must Be The Place: How Music Can Make Your City Better, in which he takes a global perspective on the ways music is integral to everyday life but is neglected in public policy, using stories from cities around the world, including London, Melbourne, Nashville, Austin and Zurich.

Want to find out about the biggest band you’ve never heard of, whether a “15 minute music city” is realistic across the UK, and why you should travel to Alabama (in two shakes) to experience live music? Let’s hear from Shain…

Mark: There is extensive research and commentary on how specialist housing can ease the burden on the healthcare system. You’ve written in the past about how music could, and perhaps should, be used in order to relieve pain or other symptoms. Do you believe that placemakers, or perhaps architects of new healthcare premises, could be playing a part in boosting the use of music for wellbeing, in particular in the absence of any such intervention by policymakers?

Shain: My wish in society is that we looked at things and acted on things holistically. We separate things often just for the sake of separating them.

For example, I kind of wish a city had a department of planning and licensing, rather than separate ones that are often not on the same page. The same goes with music, art and healthcare. We take music and art from a cultural lens, often, and we don’t see it as a holistic therapeutic tool en-masse. It is all ad-hoc. So those tasked with designing new homes and neighbourhoods draw up their masterplans, it would do good for all of us to better recognize these benefits and build them in, rather than bolt them on. I know that’s hard, but it would make for better policy and probably, better places.

Every hospital should have a music room, as I believe every venue is a community asset and could be used as an intentional healthcare tool (for mental health, for example).

Mark: What is your favourite venue for live music?

Shain: One I was involved in developing: the Orion Amphitheater in Huntsville, Alabama.

Mark: You have also written about how music, tied in with the creative and cultural economy, could be used as a development finance asset, forming part of new infrastructure. Do you foresee an appetite for new specialist music facilities in the UK outside of the major metropolitan areas, perhaps as part of multipurpose community and cultural spaces?

Shain: I do believe that we have a new opportunity in the UK with the planned devolution to think about how we integrate music into community development. A lot of the combined authorities are very active in supporting their music ecosystems – Manchester, for example is excellent.

If this reform works, and people feel more ownership of the decisions that need to be taken locally that impact them, I believe we’ll see more people want to be closer to music in whatever way it matters to them, be it a venue, a choir, a local radio station, a nursery, and resources will be found to allocate for that.

Mark: What was the first music gig/concert that you attended?

Shain: Rush at Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto, Canada. My cousin worked for them at the time.

Mark: What role do you believe new housing and new grassroots music venues should play in the rejuvenation of failing high streets across the UK?

Shain: Well, we need more housing. But there are plenty of places that are proven to work where people can live in greater density and also have entertainment opportunities around them.

Grassroots music venues are key as they are amplifiers of local culture, and admittedly the closer they are so people can walk home, if they are designed and managed in a way that supports both those who want to sleep and those who want to go it, then there could be a significant role. Same with independent bookstores, cinemas, community centres, libraries. It’s not just music that matters.

Mark: What band or artist is your dream headline act, who would be the support act and where would the gig be?

Shain: My favourite band is Phish. I wrote about them in my book. So seeing them anytime is heaven to me. Don’t care where to be honest, but they will never tour the UK. No one’s heard of them here.

Mark: Should the UK have a national music strategy, and, if so, what place should it have in planning policy?

Shain: Yes, 100%. It needs to be cross-departmental, as music cuts across everything. There should be a section specific to planning and the considerations that needs to be in there have been communicated for years by advocates – agent of change-y style policy, supportive rates, tax and duty regulations, right to consult on any housing within earshot so the housing can be built, proper, clear licensing directives. That all rests with planning and, I guess, the home office. But there’d be a role for health, education, DCMS of course, DFID and so on.

A true national music strategy, similar to what the French do with CNM or the Australians with Music Australia would be transformational.

Mark: What is the furthest you’ve travelled to see live music?

Shain: Transatlantically.

Mark: With the UK entrenched in a housing crisis, what role should planning policymakers, and private sector placemakers, play in either creating new music venues or protecting existing grassroots music venues?

Shain: They are integral to the process. I hate this false dichotomy of houses versus everything else. We need places to live for, rather than just places to live.

We’ve seen the negative impacts of neighbourhoods being built with nothing but homes in them. Having access to music, art and culture, like access to a doctor, a shop or a library should be built in to how we address the housing crisis.

Mark: If you could sum up the state of housebuilding in the UK by reference to a song, what song would it be?

Shain: Holiday in Spain by the Counting Crows.

Mark: Do you think the concept of a “15 minute music city” could ever become a widespread reality?

Shain: Yes, but it would have a different meaning, and impact, in every city. We have to accept that we will be living in denser communities. There’s only so much land. It isn’t a renewable resource. So the more we can make of the space, the better.

Many thanks to Shain for joining us. Our next episode will be landing next month – sign up to be notified when episodes are published here.

If you need further advice about any of your real estate requirements, please contact Mark via email at mark.benham@la-law.com.